Comments on: More Than Just Minions

By: Two-Hit Minions — Dungeon's Master

Two-Hit Minions — Dungeon's Master — Wed, 13 Jul 2011 13:31:38 +0000

[...] isn’t new. We first suggested the idea over two years ago in one of our very first articles, More Than Just Minions. It was a reaction to DMs who felt that the normal minions were lacking something. I’ve felt [...]

By: My Love Affair With Minions — Dungeon's Master

My Love Affair With Minions — Dungeon's Master — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 14:32:01 +0000

[...] More Than Just Minions [...]

By: 100 Great Things About Dungeons and Dragons — Dungeon's Master

100 Great Things About Dungeons and Dragons — Dungeon's Master — Thu, 28 May 2009 12:16:36 +0000

[...] Minions [...]

By: Ameron

Ameron — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:00:09 +0000

@TheMainEvent
I think what we need to be more clear about is that these “tricks” are intended for situations where PCs use their out-of-game knowledge about the mechanics of minions to influence their in-game decisions making.

I agree that if the DM is doing this just to mess with the PCs then it’s not cool. The game shouldn’t be viewed as the DM vs the PCs. The PCs need to trust the DM to provide accurate information so they can make informed decisions. Deliberately misleading them will absolutely ruin the gaming experience and probably cause out-of-game conflicts. Good feedback. Thank you.

By: TheMainEvent

TheMainEvent — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:18:41 +0000

I have to disagree with one major premise here. It’s one thing to have NPCs deceive PCs or have game mechanics mislead them. First, there are NPCs out to trick PCs, so there’s nothing wrong with those duplicitous fellows actually succeeding. Its not the DM, its the character tricking other characters. Secondly, the player’s characters aren’t privy to the mechanics of D&D, so if you want to alter the mechanics and the players blithely assume that these mechanics automatically reflect certain other rules part and parcel, this is also fair game. I’m not sure I’d do these things often, but they seem fine to do if you like.

However, describing encounters in a way purposely to mislead the PCs while wearing a DM hat just erodes trust between players and DMs. Omission and deception when you’re describing the world to the PCs is a cheap trick. The players have no one but the DM to narrate events and when you do so in a manner for the purpose of meta game trickery it frustrates players, and rightly so. In those moments where events are being described the DM really needs to be objective or else the characters won’t trust his accounts.

By: Ameron

Ameron — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 12:48:23 +0000

@Mike Shea

Our group has had limited experience with play above Heroic tier, so I don’t know how well minions hold up in Paragon or Epic tiers of play. But your comment seems to be consistent with what I’ve been reading on the blogs.

I like the idea of giving minions a death save. It eliminates the “fire and forget” mentality that seems to be prevalent when fighting minions.

By: We Need The XP! » Blog Archive » More Minion Variations For 4e - Home of Role Playing and Miniatures News and More

Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:23:51 +0000

[...] more menacing if they roll badly. A simple variation mentioned at The Dungeon’s Master is requiring two hits, but I don’t mind minions going over in one if the players score [...]

By: Mike Shea

Mike Shea — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:50:03 +0000

These are some really excellent tips. At Paragon and above, I’ve had a hard time making minions something other than window dressings. They just get bowled over like paper. I’m hoping we see some new templates for minions, elites, and solos in the next DMG to help fix some of these problems.

I’ve used a concept called “tough minions” in my game. Minions are knocked prone instead of killed. When hit while prone, they die like normal. This way I still don’t have to track hitpoints and it takes some coordination to fully kill a minion. Sustained area damage is still a problem.

Another interesting idea is to give minions a death save. If they are dropped, they get a free save to see if they’re still alive. This gives them a little bit more of a chance and gives the players a “oh man, they keep getting up!” panic attack.

I think the key to these ideas, like this article states, is to shake it up. Try different things to keep your players off balance and continually evolving.

Sometimes, however, you want to give them 30 or 40 minions they can blow up just to feel powerful. Slayer-type players love this. Don’t take it away completely.

By: Ameron

Ameron — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:34:21 +0000

I’d like to welcome Sterling to the Dungeon’s Master team. This is his first article and we’re look forward to reading more great posts from him in the coming weeks.