1. Fighters have striker as a secondary role. Their damage is supposed to be pretty good, if they build for it. Building for it does mean that they trade some of their defense, though.

2. Fighters’ damage output isn’t that far behind rogues’… but rogues are a lot more accurate than fighters. Lots of rogue powers attack NADs, while fighters are generally attacking AC. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that many fighter dailies are Reliable, but even then, the fighter needs to spend another action using that attack again to get that damage.

3. Your fighter build takes fewer feats, but only because it’s a dwarf. DWE is the equivalent of both Weapon Focus and Exotic Weapon Proficiency. At heroic tier, its damage bonus is better than Weapon Focus (but at epic tier, it’s worse). A non-dwarf would have only a 1-feat advantage, and his average damage would be 1 lower.

4. If these characters were level 11, the rogue would be up a total of 5.5 damage on average — one extra Sneak Attack die and one for Weapon Focus improving. The fighter’s numbers wouldn’t change. (Of course, each could take or retrain new feats that could change their numbers… but going off what’s there right now, the rogue gets a big improvement, while the fighter doesn’t.)

5. As mentioned, the rogue can be very effective at moderate ranges, if desired. The fighter cannot. The fighter, having given up some defense for his damage, has an AC only 1 better than the rogue’s, so he’s not all that much better off in melee than the rogue is — he has more hit points, sure, but he’s going to be eating more attacks too, even if the rogue melees.

6. Paragon paths. The rogue has a couple of options that will boost damage pretty well, if that’s what he’s after. The fighter doesn’t have so many. (Pit Fighter is pretty good at it, but this fighter lacks the wisdom to make good use of it.) This is a couple of levels off… but it will kick in right when the rogue gets that big paragon-tier boost, making for an even bigger difference.

Basically, you’ve caught the rogue at a weak point in his career, while the fighter is at a relatively high point — but even so, the rogue’s damage is still better than the fighter’s.

Many Rogue exploits, in addition to targeting NADs, also are usable either at range, or at range AND in melee. Once ranged combat is on the table, fighters tend to suffer, as they have almost nothing to do at range (other than Come and Get It). This gives rogues a chance to inflict damage when a fighter is at a loss, and also protects them in ways that a fighter cannot take advantage of (like hiding behind something 50′ away). In addition, the Sneak Attack damage can be applied to rogue ranged attacks, and the fighter has no comparable equivalent.

Sneak Attack damage is not very granular. Assuming you use d8s, the level 1-10 rogue gets 9 average damage from sneak attack, and the level 11 rogue suddenly jumps to 13.5 average damage. If that damage was drizzled out over the career of the rogue, it might not be as noticeable.

Fighters can often choose between “status effect” attacks, which do little damage, and pure damage expression attacks, as can rogues. For the purpose of this comparison, you have chosen a “pure damage” set of exploits for each. However, a fighter has very few options for adding damage to a “status effect” attack. It simply does less damage. A rogue, however, whether he chooses a more damaging attack, or a lower damage one which pushes, slides, etc, can still add his Sneak Attack damage to either, so the tradeoff between status effects and damage is much less of a all or nothing choice for the rogue. These powers will often edge out in favor of the rogue on damage, when he and the fighter both have the same “status effect” to inflict.

@ Mike
The first fighter build I looked at was the battlerager fighter, where brash strike is a necessity. While I chaged the build, I left the power as I was primarily looking at damage output. I agree that Rogue’s have many powers that target non-AC defenses. I’m a big fan of piercing strike myself.

@Cedric
You raise a good point about the fighter being not as good a defender due to his focus on damage. I’ll have to pay attention at my next session as to how he handles the role of defender.

@ Wyatt
I suppose you’re right about the fighter needing to deal out damage to hold the attention of mobs. His larger weapon die is eventually downplayed by the amount of sneak dice the rogue will eventually wield.

@ Toldain
The weapon is from the AV, in creating the two builds I looked at all sources as anything WotC publishes is now considered core and legal for play. I’ll take a look at some rattling powers, thanks for the suggestion. The reason I didn’t use any in this mock up is due to the fact that I used my Rogue as the template for that class.

@ Nocte
Thanks for the suggestions regarding the builds. You’re correct that through Paragon Paths rogues can begin to seriously outdamage the fighter.

I had played with a Drow Rogue until lvl9 (when a troll eat me).

The fighter damage potiental is very high but rogue can make a great damage, and paragon path are oriented to that (for example: Dread Fang); otherwise Rogue can play the Cat&Mouse very good (with a corner in the map, Deft Strike is gold).

The possibility to hit is another strong point in rogue class; rogues can (and must) take 20 to dex, without lose too much (defenders must have high CON and fighters WIS), and Piercing Strike at-will is a very effective attack:

F.ex: (NADs are,generally, 2 points lowers than AC):

Attack at will to AC: +2 (prof) + 5 (str) + 2 (mag) + 1 (expertise) + 2 flank = +12 to attack (+14 if Brash Strike)
Piercing Strike: +3 (prof) + 5 (dex) + 2 (mag) + 1 (expertise) + 2 (flank) = + 13 to attack.

If monsters have 22 AC (and 19-20 reflex) a rogue have 10 % more to hit.

And, this fighter isn’t a defender (he can’t soak any damage) (NADs & AC very low for his lvl)… when fight with a tough brute he dies for sure.

Finally, two things: use PIERCING STRIKE (deft strike only when you don’t want to get close to monster) and change 9th lvl Power to Knockout.

Bye

Remember, the point is to win. Who deals the most damage means nothing if you are in a TPK, or have to break and run.

Oh, and you used one of the weapons from Adventurer’s Vault if I’m not misaken. I’m not too thrilled with them, they seem to be a bit unbalanced.

I don’t think the Brutal Scoundrel class feature leverages STR all that well, though. It would be better if you used some of the abilities from Martial Power that were “rattling” so you could use the STR bonus to damage there, too. Like Disheartening Strike or something.

If the Fighter is rendered less effective at damage-dealing (and honestly, looking at his [w] numbers, there’s not exactly a lot that can be done that’s reasonable, or he’ll end up like the cleric doing at most 2[W]s as Dailies at heroic which’d be lame for Man Who Fights) then he’s also rendered less effective at defending, because he isn’t like the Paladin or Swordmage or Warden who have completely supernatural effects backing them up.

He has being a scary mofo and doing damage to back him up.
.-= Wyatt´s last blog ..Wyatt’s Notes: Adventurer 101 Intro =-.

Your rogue can, for example, just use ranged attacks and snipe from hiding and still dish out the same amount of damage. Or he can maneuver across the battlefield, to take out the squishy controller in the back.

Also, a rogue will do most of its damage from at-wills. That remains true for most of your career. However, you’ll have plenty of immediate and minor attack abilities that will allow you to attack multiple times per round which should push your damage up higher than the fighter.