Comments on: Using Fear: Scare the Player, Not the Character http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/10/using-fear-scare-the-player-not-the-character/ A Dungeons & Dragons Resource Blog For Dungeon Masters & Players Thu, 24 May 2012 19:49:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Matthew http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/10/using-fear-scare-the-player-not-the-character/comment-page-1/#comment-100537 Matthew Wed, 16 May 2012 22:19:13 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=2777#comment-100537 nice. Thanks for the ideas, I'll be glad to run a zombie apocalypse in the future. nice. Thanks for the ideas, I’ll be glad to run a zombie apocalypse in the future.

]]> By: 7 Halloween-Themed Articles — Dungeon's Master http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/10/using-fear-scare-the-player-not-the-character/comment-page-1/#comment-66710 7 Halloween-Themed Articles — Dungeon's Master Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:49:26 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=2777#comment-66710 [...] Using Fear: Scare the Player, Not the Character [...] [...] Using Fear: Scare the Player, Not the Character [...]

]]> By: 7 Tips For Running an All-Zombie Campaign — Dungeon's Master http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/10/using-fear-scare-the-player-not-the-character/comment-page-1/#comment-64505 7 Tips For Running an All-Zombie Campaign — Dungeon's Master Mon, 17 Oct 2011 13:31:22 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=2777#comment-64505 [...] Using Fear: Scare the Player, Not the Character [...] [...] Using Fear: Scare the Player, Not the Character [...]

]]> By: Peter http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/10/using-fear-scare-the-player-not-the-character/comment-page-1/#comment-18971 Peter Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:13:25 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=2777#comment-18971 I noticed one important thing that makes games feel scary and that is at least THINKING that the encounter could result in your player's death. This is VERY important. One of my first DM sessions i scared the $&%! out of my players because i dropped the lights, turned on silent hill music, and described the situation in a vague enough sense with plenty of terrifying visuals and in game consequences that made our players sit on the edge of their seat. One example is that i made the party's torch dim from the terrible cold of being in this necromancy-ridden. Instead of 20 feet of bright and 20 feet of further low light it only gave 10 feet of bright and 10 of low. As they delved deeper i dropped it to only 10 feet of low light and fortitude saves from the penetrating cold, stagnant air. The party decided to rest in the dungeon near the darkest parts and i made it so the party had terrifying dreams of being ripped apart by the cavern walls..that were now made of flesh. Will saves or temporary will reduction for being mentally wracked from the surreal experience. Then i threw a large skeletal owlbear at them and gave him constantly rising (but pathetic) minions. This was at level one. My party's first session made them begging for more. I noticed one important thing that makes games feel scary and that is at least THINKING that the encounter could result in your player’s death. This is VERY important. One of my first DM sessions i scared the $&%! out of my players because i dropped the lights, turned on silent hill music, and described the situation in a vague enough sense with plenty of terrifying visuals and in game consequences that made our players sit on the edge of their seat.

One example is that i made the party’s torch dim from the terrible cold of being in this necromancy-ridden. Instead of 20 feet of bright and 20 feet of further low light it only gave 10 feet of bright and 10 of low. As they delved deeper i dropped it to only 10 feet of low light and fortitude saves from the penetrating cold, stagnant air.

The party decided to rest in the dungeon near the darkest parts and i made it so the party had terrifying dreams of being ripped apart by the cavern walls..that were now made of flesh. Will saves or temporary will reduction for being mentally wracked from the surreal experience.

Then i threw a large skeletal owlbear at them and gave him constantly rising (but pathetic) minions.

This was at level one. My party’s first session made them begging for more.

]]> By: Ravenous Role Playing » Blog Archive » Sunday Six: 2009-11-01 http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/10/using-fear-scare-the-player-not-the-character/comment-page-1/#comment-5692 Ravenous Role Playing » Blog Archive » Sunday Six: 2009-11-01 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:37:39 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=2777#comment-5692 [...] Using Fear: Scare the Player, Not the Character I’m a hard working fiction writer (unpublished as to date) and I’ve learned that in order to scare the reader, you can’t just describe a character as being scared. You have to describe the scary thing in such wonderful detail that it evokes a visceral reaction in the reader, not the characters in the story. This translates well into role playing as well. You can always tell the player that their character is “shaken” (or whatever mechanic) due to the fright they are feeling and see if they can role play it out. However, it’s much better to describe something in a way that the player will be wary and scared and this will cause them to more easily have their character react in a fearful manner. Check out what Ameron has to say on the topic. [...] [...] Using Fear: Scare the Player, Not the Character I’m a hard working fiction writer (unpublished as to date) and I’ve learned that in order to scare the reader, you can’t just describe a character as being scared. You have to describe the scary thing in such wonderful detail that it evokes a visceral reaction in the reader, not the characters in the story. This translates well into role playing as well. You can always tell the player that their character is “shaken” (or whatever mechanic) due to the fright they are feeling and see if they can role play it out. However, it’s much better to describe something in a way that the player will be wary and scared and this will cause them to more easily have their character react in a fearful manner. Check out what Ameron has to say on the topic. [...]

]]> By: Ameron http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/10/using-fear-scare-the-player-not-the-character/comment-page-1/#comment-5292 Ameron Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:45:44 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=2777#comment-5292 @Joshua Attempting to instill genuine fear in the players is not something I'd recommend in all circumstances. Gauge your players. If you know them and think this will work, go ahead. If this is a game in a public setting (like a convention for example) then tread lightly. The goal is to make the game more fun, not give someone a traumatic incident. @pinwing What a fantastic example. I'm going to use this in an upcoming game. It will absolutely freak out my players. @Badelaire I guess with Halloween around the corner everyone's writing about fear, undead and the macabre. You're absolutely right about player buy-in. If the group is reluctant, these tips won't work no matter how scary your description. Your point about lethality is a good one, but I agree that in D&D it probably won't work. If even 1 PC dies there's bound to be grumbling. If 4 out of 5 are dead by the end of the adventure the DM will likely be shot. I think the "weird them out" approach is probably the most realistic approach when playing with experienced gamers. If it's new or different you'll get their attention. If it's just more zombies they'll be bored rather than scared. @Rook Thanks, Rook. I find my creative writing background really helps when I'm trying to describe more than the typical details. Nothing puts players in character like describing bizarre sounds or strange smells. @Jamie Thanks for the link. Now I have another great place to draw inspiration from. @Jafo Good point. I suppose what's scary is all relevant. A normal person in a D&D setting will accept a lot of things as normal that would scare the hell out of me in real life. Until you establish the baseline you won't know how far you need to push something to make it scary. @Joshua
Attempting to instill genuine fear in the players is not something I’d recommend in all circumstances. Gauge your players. If you know them and think this will work, go ahead. If this is a game in a public setting (like a convention for example) then tread lightly. The goal is to make the game more fun, not give someone a traumatic incident.

@pinwing
What a fantastic example. I’m going to use this in an upcoming game. It will absolutely freak out my players.

@Badelaire
I guess with Halloween around the corner everyone’s writing about fear, undead and the macabre. You’re absolutely right about player buy-in. If the group is reluctant, these tips won’t work no matter how scary your description. Your point about lethality is a good one, but I agree that in D&D it probably won’t work. If even 1 PC dies there’s bound to be grumbling. If 4 out of 5 are dead by the end of the adventure the DM will likely be shot. I think the “weird them out” approach is probably the most realistic approach when playing with experienced gamers. If it’s new or different you’ll get their attention. If it’s just more zombies they’ll be bored rather than scared.

@Rook
Thanks, Rook. I find my creative writing background really helps when I’m trying to describe more than the typical details. Nothing puts players in character like describing bizarre sounds or strange smells.

@Jamie
Thanks for the link. Now I have another great place to draw inspiration from.

@Jafo
Good point. I suppose what’s scary is all relevant. A normal person in a D&D setting will accept a lot of things as normal that would scare the hell out of me in real life. Until you establish the baseline you won’t know how far you need to push something to make it scary.

]]> By: Jafo http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/10/using-fear-scare-the-player-not-the-character/comment-page-1/#comment-5254 Jafo Tue, 27 Oct 2009 02:56:45 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=2777#comment-5254 I think to scare players and keep them caring about their characters is to give them time in a campaign to settle in, invest in the world and the story. Once they have some "real" relationships and a very established sense of what is normal, then you can start to wreak havoc on that expectation. Until you know what is very normal and comfortable in the game world, it's hard to startle players with the weird or scary. I think to scare players and keep them caring about their characters is to give them time in a campaign to settle in, invest in the world and the story. Once they have some “real” relationships and a very established sense of what is normal, then you can start to wreak havoc on that expectation.

Until you know what is very normal and comfortable in the game world, it’s hard to startle players with the weird or scary.

]]> By: Jamie http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/10/using-fear-scare-the-player-not-the-character/comment-page-1/#comment-5248 Jamie Tue, 27 Oct 2009 01:17:35 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=2777#comment-5248 Scaring the player in games where fear is part of the object has always been something I have tried for, though I tend to like going for slightly creepy effects that build up over time than single events. That's just me, though. One of my favorite resources for this is an RPG.net thread, Contribute Your Eerie Event (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=27565). .-= Jamie´s last blog ..<a href="http://gamingstl.blogspot.com/2009/10/sightseeing.html" rel="nofollow">Sightseeing</a> =-. Scaring the player in games where fear is part of the object has always been something I have tried for, though I tend to like going for slightly creepy effects that build up over time than single events. That’s just me, though. One of my favorite resources for this is an RPG.net thread, Contribute Your Eerie Event (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=27565).
.-= Jamie´s last blog ..Sightseeing =-.

]]> By: Rook http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/10/using-fear-scare-the-player-not-the-character/comment-page-1/#comment-5243 Rook Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:30:50 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=2777#comment-5243 Well, regardless of which side of the “to scare or not to scare” debate you fall on, Ameron does make at least one very good point. Its all in the details. As a DM, I think its very important to describe any scene to your players with far more than just general visual components. Describing sounds and smells, among other stimuli, can really bring a situation to life in the eyes of your players. Another good point is to describe things from the PCs point of view. Ameron sums this concept up nicely in the last paragraph. Well done. (Now, if I could just remember to put this into practice.) :) .-= Rook´s last blog ..<a href="http://powerwordblog.com/?p=130" rel="nofollow">Of Wishes and Wizards</a> =-. Well, regardless of which side of the “to scare or not to scare” debate you fall on, Ameron does make at least one very good point. Its all in the details. As a DM, I think its very important to describe any scene to your players with far more than just general visual components. Describing sounds and smells, among other stimuli, can really bring a situation to life in the eyes of your players. Another good point is to describe things from the PCs point of view. Ameron sums this concept up nicely in the last paragraph. Well done.
(Now, if I could just remember to put this into practice.) :)
.-= Rook´s last blog ..Of Wishes and Wizards =-.

]]> By: Badelaire http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/10/using-fear-scare-the-player-not-the-character/comment-page-1/#comment-5221 Badelaire Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:38:35 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=2777#comment-5221 Interestingly enough, <a href="http://tankardsandbroadswords.blogspot.com/2009/10/are-you-scared-maybe-you-should-be.html" rel="nofollow">I wrote an article about this on Friday </a> (guess it must be the season). I think the biggest hurdle in doing anything "scary" in RPGs is player buy-in. Some players simply aren't going to buy in to anything "scary". Any attempt by the GM to set the mood or emphasize the horrific aspects of the situation will just be met by laughter and scorn, and any attempt to enforce horror through mechanics just gets attacked by players who refuse to let the rules affect their PC's reactions. You also run into a problem with lethality. I've often seen people say the best way to enforce fear in the part of the player is to instill fear for the safety of the character. The problem with that I see is the more you threaten the character and the greater the likelihood of PC death, the more players are going to detach themselves from their PCs. Just like watching a slasher-type horror movie, if you know 90% of the cast is going to be dead by the end credits, you don't invest yourself emotionally with any of them, and in fact spend most of the movie making fun of them for doing stupid stuff that gets them killed. So that's the big problem as I see it. The more you try to instill fear through atmospheric / role-play means, the more some players are going to rebel because they think it's "silly" or "corny", and the more you reinforce it through mechanical means, the more players are going to treat their PCs as playing pieces or slasher film characters, just waiting to see how they meet a gruesome end and laughing about it afterward. I think it's possible to "gross out" your players, and I think it's possible to "weird them out" as well. And maybe now and then if you hit it just right you might make one of them a little nervous or give someone a good startle. Beyond this, I just don't think Horror Gaming, in terms of "scaring the players/PCs" on a long term basis, is feasible with your average gamer. If you can land an entire crop of players who will enthusiastically allow themselves to buy in to the horror experience, I think you've landed a once-in-a-blue-moon situation. .-= Badelaire´s last blog ..<a href="http://tankardsandbroadswords.blogspot.com/2009/10/are-you-scared-maybe-you-should-be.html" rel="nofollow">Are You Scared? Maybe You Should Be...</a> =-. Interestingly enough, I wrote an article about this on Friday (guess it must be the season).

I think the biggest hurdle in doing anything “scary” in RPGs is player buy-in. Some players simply aren’t going to buy in to anything “scary”. Any attempt by the GM to set the mood or emphasize the horrific aspects of the situation will just be met by laughter and scorn, and any attempt to enforce horror through mechanics just gets attacked by players who refuse to let the rules affect their PC’s reactions.

You also run into a problem with lethality. I’ve often seen people say the best way to enforce fear in the part of the player is to instill fear for the safety of the character. The problem with that I see is the more you threaten the character and the greater the likelihood of PC death, the more players are going to detach themselves from their PCs. Just like watching a slasher-type horror movie, if you know 90% of the cast is going to be dead by the end credits, you don’t invest yourself emotionally with any of them, and in fact spend most of the movie making fun of them for doing stupid stuff that gets them killed.

So that’s the big problem as I see it. The more you try to instill fear through atmospheric / role-play means, the more some players are going to rebel because they think it’s “silly” or “corny”, and the more you reinforce it through mechanical means, the more players are going to treat their PCs as playing pieces or slasher film characters, just waiting to see how they meet a gruesome end and laughing about it afterward.

I think it’s possible to “gross out” your players, and I think it’s possible to “weird them out” as well. And maybe now and then if you hit it just right you might make one of them a little nervous or give someone a good startle. Beyond this, I just don’t think Horror Gaming, in terms of “scaring the players/PCs” on a long term basis, is feasible with your average gamer.

If you can land an entire crop of players who will enthusiastically allow themselves to buy in to the horror experience, I think you’ve landed a once-in-a-blue-moon situation.
.-= Badelaire´s last blog ..Are You Scared? Maybe You Should Be… =-.

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