Comments on: Greatest Hits 2009: I’m Your Cleric, Not Your Bitch! http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/12/greatest-hits-2009-im-your-cleric-not-your-bitch/ A Dungeons & Dragons Resource Blog For Dungeon Masters & Players Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:58:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Liger http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/12/greatest-hits-2009-im-your-cleric-not-your-bitch/comment-page-1/#comment-26029 Liger Wed, 29 Sep 2010 20:33:23 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=3377#comment-26029 Cleric=Healbot :) Cleric=Healbot
:)

]]> By: Ameron http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/12/greatest-hits-2009-im-your-cleric-not-your-bitch/comment-page-1/#comment-9451 Ameron Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:15:20 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=3377#comment-9451 @math_geek Great comment. The situations that spawned this article really came down to the player's desire to develop a role-playing quirk. He felt that a good leader should ensure that all party resources are put to their best use. If you ask for healing before using your own resources (like second wind) and he heals you, that's one less heal for someone else later in combat. This became problematic when the guy who ended up needing the healing most already used his second wind but by then the Cleric was out of healing. From then on the Cleric only healed if you'd used your second wind or if it was clearly a life or death situation. Our solution was to introduce another leader and that worked too. @math_geek
Great comment. The situations that spawned this article really came down to the player’s desire to develop a role-playing quirk. He felt that a good leader should ensure that all party resources are put to their best use. If you ask for healing before using your own resources (like second wind) and he heals you, that’s one less heal for someone else later in combat. This became problematic when the guy who ended up needing the healing most already used his second wind but by then the Cleric was out of healing. From then on the Cleric only healed if you’d used your second wind or if it was clearly a life or death situation. Our solution was to introduce another leader and that worked too.

]]> By: Ravenous Role Playing » Blog Archive » Friday Five: 2010-01-01 http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/12/greatest-hits-2009-im-your-cleric-not-your-bitch/comment-page-1/#comment-8952 Ravenous Role Playing » Blog Archive » Friday Five: 2010-01-01 Sat, 02 Jan 2010 21:36:17 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=3377#comment-8952 [...] Greatest Hits 2009: I’m Your Cleric, Not Your Bitch! The title of this post is good enough to link to just for the fun of it. I love this title, and I love the article even more because it brings up some intra-party conflict between the tanks that absorb the damage and the healers that keep the wounded from becoming resurrection fodder. [...] [...] Greatest Hits 2009: I’m Your Cleric, Not Your Bitch! The title of this post is good enough to link to just for the fun of it. I love this title, and I love the article even more because it brings up some intra-party conflict between the tanks that absorb the damage and the healers that keep the wounded from becoming resurrection fodder. [...]

]]> By: Tweets that mention Greatest Hits 2009: I’m Your Cleric, Not Your Bitch! — Dungeon's Master -- Topsy.com http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/12/greatest-hits-2009-im-your-cleric-not-your-bitch/comment-page-1/#comment-8873 Tweets that mention Greatest Hits 2009: I’m Your Cleric, Not Your Bitch! — Dungeon's Master -- Topsy.com Thu, 31 Dec 2009 17:12:41 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=3377#comment-8873 [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by GatorGames, Kurtis Peterson. Kurtis Peterson said: RT: @GatorGames: Greatest Hits 2009: I’m Your Cleric, Not Your Bitch! http://ow.ly/QAbf #dnd [...] [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by GatorGames, Kurtis Peterson. Kurtis Peterson said: RT: @GatorGames: Greatest Hits 2009: I’m Your Cleric, Not Your Bitch! http://ow.ly/QAbf #dnd [...]

]]> By: math_geek http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/12/greatest-hits-2009-im-your-cleric-not-your-bitch/comment-page-1/#comment-8771 math_geek Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:37:56 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=3377#comment-8771 This was such an interesting article. I started reading this site long after this article was written. However, the general feeling of this article makes me quite angry. I can understand the general theme of God helps those who help themselves, but on the other-hand this comes across in many situations as simply unrealistic role-playing. For my characters, combat isn't a game in which they can impose restrictions on themselves for the sake of challenge or piety. It's an life-threatening struggle against forces that offer no other recourse. Most of my characters try to avoid fighting if they can (although there are certainly exceptions). When combat is inevitable, they have a team of trained combatants that make up the party. Leaders do not get their two minor-encounter heals in fourth edition just as a bonus. Their at-will powers and other powers are actively weaker to preserve the balance of the game. A cleric who chooses not to use his healing powers in combat in many situations is a character who is simply not doing everything within their power to win a combat. Is that someone I, as a person, would want to go into battle with at all? Consider a swordmage, fighter, or warden, who chooses not to mark creatures. After all, marking creatures only causes them to attack me and perhaps the character is a bit more self-interested than that. Especially if the rest of the party isn't fully committed to success. Would defenders be as willing to handle front-line duties if they had to constantly pay for their own healing via healing potions? To go a step further, perhaps party members specifically refuse to protect the cleric, letting him stand on the front lines by themselves while they cover their own backs. Or another interesting way, is, a character might not see this cleric as a full member of the party. If the cleric doesn't take life-or-death situations seriously, or isn't fully committed to the party, when it comes time to divy up treasures, perhaps that cleric should get a half-share. Those same defenders who were buying the potions, might demand that the party fund these expenses if they expect the defenders to take a front line role in the party. The problem with all this lies on the gameplay side. If people specifically prefer not to play leaders because they find healing "boring", then some kind of adjustment needs to be made to make the game more fun. But I'm not really sure that has anything to do with those minor action heal spells. I mean, having powerful minor actions has always been sort of an exciting thing for my characters. This was such an interesting article. I started reading this site long after this article was written. However, the general feeling of this article makes me quite angry. I can understand the general theme of God helps those who help themselves, but on the other-hand this comes across in many situations as simply unrealistic role-playing. For my characters, combat isn’t a game in which they can impose restrictions on themselves for the sake of challenge or piety. It’s an life-threatening struggle against forces that offer no other recourse. Most of my characters try to avoid fighting if they can (although there are certainly exceptions). When combat is inevitable, they have a team of trained combatants that make up the party. Leaders do not get their two minor-encounter heals in fourth edition just as a bonus. Their at-will powers and other powers are actively weaker to preserve the balance of the game. A cleric who chooses not to use his healing powers in combat in many situations is a character who is simply not doing everything within their power to win a combat. Is that someone I, as a person, would want to go into battle with at all? Consider a swordmage, fighter, or warden, who chooses not to mark creatures. After all, marking creatures only causes them to attack me and perhaps the character is a bit more self-interested than that. Especially if the rest of the party isn’t fully committed to success. Would defenders be as willing to handle front-line duties if they had to constantly pay for their own healing via healing potions? To go a step further, perhaps party members specifically refuse to protect the cleric, letting him stand on the front lines by themselves while they cover their own backs.

Or another interesting way, is, a character might not see this cleric as a full member of the party. If the cleric doesn’t take life-or-death situations seriously, or isn’t fully committed to the party, when it comes time to divy up treasures, perhaps that cleric should get a half-share. Those same defenders who were buying the potions, might demand that the party fund these expenses if they expect the defenders to take a front line role in the party.

The problem with all this lies on the gameplay side. If people specifically prefer not to play leaders because they find healing “boring”, then some kind of adjustment needs to be made to make the game more fun. But I’m not really sure that has anything to do with those minor action heal spells. I mean, having powerful minor actions has always been sort of an exciting thing for my characters.

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