Comments on: The Skill Challenge Backdoor http://dungeonsmaster.com/2010/01/the-skill-challenge-backdoor/ A Dungeons & Dragons Resource Blog For Dungeon Masters & Players Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:58:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ameron http://dungeonsmaster.com/2010/01/the-skill-challenge-backdoor/comment-page-1/#comment-10438 Ameron Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:25:19 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=3674#comment-10438 @Sorain Thanks for the great (and extremely detailed) comment. :) I have a PC with a Hat of Disguise who tries this kind of thing all the time. He too has a high Bluff and is often more successful than not. Most DMs let me get away with a lot since they didn't expect that particular course of action (the whole "say yes" thing and all). @Sorain
Thanks for the great (and extremely detailed) comment. :)

I have a PC with a Hat of Disguise who tries this kind of thing all the time. He too has a high Bluff and is often more successful than not. Most DMs let me get away with a lot since they didn’t expect that particular course of action (the whole “say yes” thing and all).

]]> By: Sorain http://dungeonsmaster.com/2010/01/the-skill-challenge-backdoor/comment-page-1/#comment-10132 Sorain Thu, 28 Jan 2010 20:16:39 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=3674#comment-10132 A particulurly manipulative trick pulled by a fellow player in one social challange I was working in amused me. His Eladrin Wizard decided (with a subsequent bluff check) to 'reveal' to the bugbear guards that he was a Drow. (By using predistitgation to turn his skin the right color, his hair white, leaving his purple eyes alone.) that alone got him a double sucess (when he succeded) and a +2 on bluff's. Got to commend him for his vaguely worded but shadowy sounding "We are here on the goddess's business. Impede us, and you are standing against the goddess herself. I might be required to report to my superiors that your kind did not yeald to authority." He was refrencing Sehaine (who they were working for) and the king of a local city-state (who they were working with). Of course, the bugbear drew an entierly diffrent set of conclusions. :) Things like that are the most fun player made backdoors. But the general idea of backdoors is something I belive applys to nearly any challange. I love having players come up with additional arguments to present, but sometimes they just dont know the world well enough to do it. Knowladge skills get them that info whenever I can think of something. (The naboring kingdom is rumored to employ necromancers) (Argument that a delve of evil dwarves would not only want to employ tireless undead labor, but that they might find onix to sell to said kingdom for their necromancy programs. worth 2 trys each for a sucess) Naturally there is a time for ignoring clever tricks and just getting on with things. Such as when you really need that door open before the black dragon whos prize horde element you just... borrowed, is on its way. A particulurly manipulative trick pulled by a fellow player in one social challange I was working in amused me. His Eladrin Wizard decided (with a subsequent bluff check) to ‘reveal’ to the bugbear guards that he was a Drow. (By using predistitgation to turn his skin the right color, his hair white, leaving his purple eyes alone.) that alone got him a double sucess (when he succeded) and a +2 on bluff’s. Got to commend him for his vaguely worded but shadowy sounding “We are here on the goddess’s business. Impede us, and you are standing against the goddess herself. I might be required to report to my superiors that your kind did not yeald to authority.” He was refrencing Sehaine (who they were working for) and the king of a local city-state (who they were working with). Of course, the bugbear drew an entierly diffrent set of conclusions. :)

Things like that are the most fun player made backdoors. But the general idea of backdoors is something I belive applys to nearly any challange.

I love having players come up with additional arguments to present, but sometimes they just dont know the world well enough to do it. Knowladge skills get them that info whenever I can think of something. (The naboring kingdom is rumored to employ necromancers) (Argument that a delve of evil dwarves would not only want to employ tireless undead labor, but that they might find onix to sell to said kingdom for their necromancy programs. worth 2 trys each for a sucess)

Naturally there is a time for ignoring clever tricks and just getting on with things. Such as when you really need that door open before the black dragon whos prize horde element you just… borrowed, is on its way.

]]> By: Ameron http://dungeonsmaster.com/2010/01/the-skill-challenge-backdoor/comment-page-1/#comment-10110 Ameron Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:01:22 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=3674#comment-10110 @Anarkeith I've found that if the PCs know or suspect that there's a backdoor they're more likely to be creative while they try to figure out what it is. That in turn usually makes things a lot more exciting. @Jason It sounds like you've discovered the benefits of the backdoor. You're right, it costs the DM nothing to add it but the role-playing rewards are "a million-to-one." In my group everyone wants to be in the spotlight so they race to see who can find the backdoor and use it first. @Philo Pharynx I think reputation is one of those intangibles that DMs and PCs too often overlook. We ran a three-part serious on reputation a while back. Check it out. <ul> <li> <a href="http://www.thecoremechanic.com/2009/04/reputation-part-1.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Reputation (Part 1)</a> </li> <li> <a href="http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/04/reputation-part-2" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Reputation (Part 2)</a> </li> <li> <a href="http://dungeonsmaster.com/2009/04/reputation-part-3" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Reputation (Part 3)</a> </li> </ul> @Anarkeith
I’ve found that if the PCs know or suspect that there’s a backdoor they’re more likely to be creative while they try to figure out what it is. That in turn usually makes things a lot more exciting.

@Jason
It sounds like you’ve discovered the benefits of the backdoor. You’re right, it costs the DM nothing to add it but the role-playing rewards are “a million-to-one.” In my group everyone wants to be in the spotlight so they race to see who can find the backdoor and use it first.

@Philo Pharynx
I think reputation is one of those intangibles that DMs and PCs too often overlook. We ran a three-part serious on reputation a while back. Check it out.

]]> By: Philo Pharynx http://dungeonsmaster.com/2010/01/the-skill-challenge-backdoor/comment-page-1/#comment-10093 Philo Pharynx Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:57:48 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=3674#comment-10093 Great post! It's one that helps cement the characters into the issues of the world. I can also see modidifers based on reputations. As characters get more powerful and more famous, this can open some doors for them. Great post! It’s one that helps cement the characters into the issues of the world. I can also see modidifers based on reputations. As characters get more powerful and more famous, this can open some doors for them.

]]> By: Jason http://dungeonsmaster.com/2010/01/the-skill-challenge-backdoor/comment-page-1/#comment-10073 Jason Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:57:38 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=3674#comment-10073 <i>But how many DMs intentionally build this kind of mechanic into their skill challenges consistently?</i> I do, now. This is one of those simple, elegant, and awesome DM tricks that gets about a million-to-one return. The players will enjoy this kind of trick immensely, not only because it helps the party achieve their goals but because it has the added benefit of being a miniature "spotlight" on the PC who gets the bonus. You could do the same thing with a combat-embedded skill challenge by placing obstacles in places that PCs with Acrobatics or Athletics can only get to, runes or traps that use symbols only Religion or Arcana can deal with, etc. But how many DMs intentionally build this kind of mechanic into their skill challenges consistently?

I do, now. This is one of those simple, elegant, and awesome DM tricks that gets about a million-to-one return. The players will enjoy this kind of trick immensely, not only because it helps the party achieve their goals but because it has the added benefit of being a miniature “spotlight” on the PC who gets the bonus.

You could do the same thing with a combat-embedded skill challenge by placing obstacles in places that PCs with Acrobatics or Athletics can only get to, runes or traps that use symbols only Religion or Arcana can deal with, etc.

]]> By: Anarkeith http://dungeonsmaster.com/2010/01/the-skill-challenge-backdoor/comment-page-1/#comment-10068 Anarkeith Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:30:33 +0000 http://dungeonsmaster.com/?p=3674#comment-10068 One of the DMs I play with usually has an element in both his combat and non-combat encounters that is either essential or makes it easier. This makes for entertaining combats, and in his games we're always on the lookout for stuff we can use or abuse. One of the DMs I play with usually has an element in both his combat and non-combat encounters that is either essential or makes it easier. This makes for entertaining combats, and in his games we’re always on the lookout for stuff we can use or abuse.

]]>