Comments on: Ritual Casting – Opening Up The System

By: Philo Pharynx

Philo Pharynx — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:27 +0000

I like the idea of ritual caster being a feat that magical classes get automatically. In some of my 4e games, we have characters that have and use rituals when appropriate. I’d like to add D) to Math Geek’s list: People don’t think about them. They’re listed separately from powers, and even when people have components, they don’t think about them. One solution I use to C and D is to make components available as treasure. This can be parts taken from a monster of an appropriate type or things taken from strange terrain features. I usually set an appropriate DC for the skill in order to harvest them and I give X gp worth for every Y points they get over the DC. This helps take care of the cost and reminds them about rituals on a regular basis. I also have been thinking of adding a 5th level ritual that allows you to convert components into half as much residuum.

By: Nifelhein

Nifelhein — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:27:06 +0000

I believe the key skill is there as a legacy from the older editions and mostly because they determine what kind of materials the component cost actually is on the game world, it is a good GM guideline.

I believe that making a ritual require training in a skill would greatly diminish its potential and increase the skill system’s, but I don’t see why the simple removal of the feat wouldn’t work for your intent.

Without a feat all that is left is the idea that anyone can perform a ritual. The thing that bothers me the most between martial practices and rituals is having two systems designed around the same idea: out of combat potential.

By: JesterOC

JesterOC — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:41:51 +0000

The ritual is magic that allows you to perform actions beyond your understanding. The ritual is the basis for the action. And the skill roll is needed to show how you can use this magical ability.

On the other hand, Martial Practices come from the skill itself. It is the PC’s intense knowledge of the skill that allows him/her to perform beyond of the level of the everyday skill user.

JesterOC

By: Wimwick

Wimwick — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:35:48 +0000

@ Supa & Nifelhein
True, training isn’t required I misread that when I wrote the article. Though I can’t undertand why even give a key skill if training isn’t required. If a check is required just include it in the text. I also find the lack of training for rituals odd given that Martial Practices (Martial Power 2) will require skill training.

By: Nifelhein

Nifelhein — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:21:07 +0000

I am with Supa, there is no requirement to be trained in a skill to learn or perform rituals, unless we are talking specific rituals, which might have particularly restricting mechanics.

By: Supa

Supa — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:51:05 +0000

Sorry, but where does it say that training in the key skill of a ritual is a prerequisite for casting it? From page 298 of the PHB:

“You must meet two requirements to master a ritual.
You must have the Ritual Caster feat (clerics and
wizards get this feat at 1st level), and your level must
equal or exceed the ritual’s level. If you meet those
requirements and spend 8 hours studying a ritual, you
can add it to your list of mastered rituals. As long as
you have the ritual’s book handy, you can perform a
mastered ritual whenever you want.”

By: Arcade

Arcade — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:18:07 +0000

math_geek’s argument on Raise Dead is a good one. So maybe something in the middle is required. Like saying that anyone can cast rituals, but if they don’t have Ritual Caster, it lowers their level by 5 or 10. This is like the difference between having skill training or not. Even your dumb as nails barbarian has a +10 to Arcana at level 20. 10 levels is more in line with how you can imagine a fighter to cast Raise Dead at level 15, but 5 levels makes rituals more accessible, so your 6th level ranger can cast 1st level Nature rituals, which is fine.

It will be interesting to see martial rituals. Maybe all rituals need to be divided into power sources, such as arcane, divine and primal, and your class’s power source helps determine what you gain instant access to or possibly a 5 level delay, and what should be delayed by 10 levels or more.

By: Mike D.

Mike D. — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:59:26 +0000

I’m with Wimwick. I don’t pay any attention to rituals right now, as a player or DM. I think something needs to be changed here.

Another way to open them up, other than feats or skill trainings, is to have them become a part of a background benefit. So if you are from such and such place, you also have training in this or that ritual.

By: Wimwick

Wimwick — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:57:55 +0000

@ Everyone
Some great feedback and idea’s here. Clearly there are people who are passionate, or who at least hold a strong opinion, about rituals.

I’m interested in seeing what Martial Powers 2 brings to the table regarding martial rituals, what these look like and what’s required to access them.

As far as rituals as they stand right now, I think it’s a call that each DM needs to make. Certainly there is nothing wrong with using the rules as presented or to open the system up to increase accessability.

By: JesterOC

JesterOC — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:56:23 +0000

I think Math Geek is spot on. Its all about the money. If all ritual casters could get either an amount of “free” ritual costs per day, or have the options to substitute hit points or healing surges for component costs (or both) it would free players to think about using more rituals.

I also don’t like the specialized components (Alchemical Reagents (Arcana), Mystic Salves (Heal),Rare Herbs (Nature)) because they have the drawback of being specialized without a cost break. Perhaps they should produce twice the effectiveness when used with their specialty and half their effectiveness when used with another type.

Of course another way for DM’s to encourage ritual use is to let the PC’s find them, along with a bundle of appropriate components.