Comments on: Player’s Handbook 3 (PHB3) Review (Part 2)

By: Thindelock

Thindelock — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:46:06 +0000

@Ameron You’re right, in higher levels non-AC defenses are, on average, about the same as AC. But implement users usually have two advantages to cover this difference that you might not have considered.

1) They’re more frequently targeting multiple foes. If you’re 10-15% less likely to hit, but targeting 2-3x the foes per power used, the math is still in your favor compared to the guy swinging the sword. This isn’t just controllers… most implement-based strikers, leaders, and defenders get more area effects than weapon users.

2) It’s not about hitting “non-AC defenses” generally, it’s about CHOOSING which defense to hit. Yes, on average the defenses are roughly equal across the board, but a quick look at the level 22-28 monsters in the Monster Builder shows a trend of having one or two defenses that are 2 to 5 points lower than the others, and weapon users have no way to exploit that. Simply being able to select which defense to target is an advantage the guy swinging the sword doesn’t have. Some monsters have truly average defenses, and the weapon user is at an advantage, but if a single defense is 2-3 points low, an implement user can be on even footing… and if the difference is 4 or more, the implement user that picks the right defense is actually at an advantage even without the proficiency bonus.

So yeah, weapon users can hit AC more reliably. But implement users can target a vulnerable defense to make up that difference, and do it to more enemies at once. It just requires a bit more care and thought, as spellcasters generally have in every edition of the game.

By: Ameron

Ameron — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:02:30 +0000

@Tialla
I’ll admit that I may have overreacted when I was writing this article. I just thought it a bit unfair that you had to take a feat and pay gp. But I guess you could compare it to ritual casting in that regard.

@Steven
You and I are in complete agreement on this one.

@Mike Karkabe-Olson
I’ve noticed that in the paragon and epic tier most monsters have almost identical defenses between AC, Fort, Ref and Will. Getting a +3 proficiency bonus with your sword suddenly makes hitting AC easier than me hitting Ref with my implement.

By: Player’s Handbook 3 (PHB3) Review (Part 3) — Dungeon's Master

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[...] 3 Review (Part 1)we covered the new races and the new divine leader class, the Runepriest. In Player’s Handbook 3 Review (Part 2)we covered skill powers, feats and new magic items. In today’s article we’ll look [...]

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[...] Paths or Epic Destinies. With the release of the Player’s Handbook 3 (read our review Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3) the possible combinations have increased even further. What does this mean for you as a [...]

By: Mike Karkabe-Olson

Mike Karkabe-Olson — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:20:08 +0000

@Steven: I don’t believe implements are underpowered. Why? Because Will, Reflex and Fortitude defenses tend to, overall, be lower for most creatures and PCs than their AC (because of armor and shield bonuses). At best, weapon proficiency bonuses simply offset this difference that stems from the armor (and the AC) people are wearing.

By: Steven

Steven — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:38:24 +0000

I think implements are underpowered and I still don’t see parity. Implements don’t get the proficiency bonus that weapon users enjoy for free. I know the argument is that implement powers attack non-ac defenses, but I don’t buy it. I think implements need those bonus’s…

By: Tialla

Tialla — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:43:00 +0000

Your statement about superior implements seems just a little off–it’s not a punch in the gut, it’s a bit of equality–superior implements are, for all intents and purposes, the same sort of thing as exotic weapons–which also cost negligibly more for non-magical ones, and a feat. And honestly…+2 radiant damage for a cleric, for instance, or +2 necrotic damage for a dark pact warlock…is certainly worth a feat–anyone who might take one of the +1/+2/+3 damage feats for a specific damage type might jump at the chance to get it instead as +2/+3/+4 and a +1 vs Fort, Ref, or Will.

By: Swordgleam

Swordgleam — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 20:39:01 +0000

Ah, that’s much, much better. I wonder if you’ll have people taking Skill Power to get an extra utility, then a multiclass power swap feat to switch it for something else? And does this mean Skill Power gives wizards two extra skill powers?

By: Wyatt

Wyatt — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:53:55 +0000

That is pretty much how it works, yes. .-= Wyatt´s last blog ..RELEASE: NAA D6 V1.3 =-.

By: Ameron

Ameron — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 16:30:24 +0000

@Swordgleam
I believe the Skill Power feat lets you choose a skill power above and beyond your normal Utility power allotment. So at level 6 you get a Utility power from either your class list or the skill powers applicable to the powers you’re trained in. If you choose the Skill Power feat you could choose a level 6 skill power in addition to whatever you just selected. That’s my take on it.