Comments on: Skill Challenge: Lie To Me

By: Cedrick

Cedrick — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 03:04:57 +0000

I just recently started DMing and couldn’t agree with you more. I hate that PC’s think that good insight or sense motive rolls let them know that they’ve been lied to. It shouldn’t be that easy. You can tell that the person is up to no good, or isn’t an honest person, but discounting something they said as lies shouldn’t always be the case.

By: Ameron

Ameron — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:26:49 +0000

@everyone
Sorry for the delayed responses, I’ve been sick for the past few days.

@Kensan_Oni
I think this is a great way to use Insight. I’m a big fan of puzzles and riddles in D&D, but it’s tough to separate player knowledge and character knowledge, especially if the PC has an 18+ Wisdom or Intelligence. That PC would likely know the answer of be able to figure it out quickly; meanwhile the player is completely stumped. Keeping the puzzle more abstract and using Insight and Bluff is an excellent way to keep things moving.

@Scott
I understand introducing a mechanic into D&D so PCs can ferret out lies, but this is one of those cases where a little reality has to be injected into the fantasy. Sure you get a “bad vibe” from someone, but that might not mean they’re lying. I find that too many PCs assume that a successful Insight check means they should know definitively that they were just lied to. Of course, there will be circumstances where it’s obvious, but these should be the exceptions and not the norms.

@Paul
I like the idea of unlocking aspects of the lie with another skill and then using Insight to realize what it means. This is how I (try to) use Insight in this circumstance.

By: Paul

Paul — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:51:32 +0000

Believe it or not, I was just thinking about this. Important lies are complex enough not to be undone with a single check.

One thing I considered was requiring each Insight check to be “unlocked” by some other check. However, if one doesn’t want to get this complicated, one could just do something like just having the liar avoid the PCs or try to bump them off if they get nosy.
.-= Paul´s last blog ..pdunwin: @DM_Simonides I’m interested in details if you have a place to post them. Like to help, if I can. #dnd =-.

By: Scott

Scott — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:48:51 +0000

You know, I never really considered this before until you brought it up, but the way Insight vs. Bluff works in D&D has almost no actual bearing on how truth-telling works in real life. Research has shown that the VAST majority of the population (99%+) have little or no ability to tell a truth from a lie when exposed to a liar – their response is no better than a coin-flip. It is only that tiny fraction of individuals (0.25% or so of the total population) that has any natural ability to discern a lie. Even with extensive training, the results for your average person do not improve in any remarkable way.

Yet, despite the fact that I know all of this, when I’m running a D&D game I very often will tell a player with a good Insight check, “Yeah, he’s lying.” It seems like this is one of those suspension of disbelief issues that we come across – movies, books, tv shows, video games, fiction in general all seem to make extensive use of make-believe characters who have truth-telling ability that borders on the supernatural.

By: Kensan_Oni

Kensan_Oni — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:55:05 +0000

This has nothing really to do with this article, mind you, but in my last game session, I was using Insight as a defense for a riddle contest. The player got to choose one of their knowledge skills (Or Bluff checks if they wanted), and they targeted the monster’s Insight check, and visa versa, to try to solve a riddle.

I mainly did this because I wanted a riddle contest, but I didn’t want to take forever doing it, and *i* am not clever enough to figure out a lot of player riddles rather quickly. It worked out well, I think.