Comments on: Fighting an Opponent You Can’t Beat

By: strangeomen

strangeomen — Fri, 24 Feb 2012 21:13:02 +0000

DM was right on. The issue is the boring idea that a “hero” means kicking everything’s ass, just this canned progression of fights for xp. What about picking your ground, studying your foe, choosing to fight another day, skirmishing, retreating, etc? Basic Sun Tzu Art of War! That kind of D&D is far more interesting, living in a world where there are way more powerful beings than you and using your battle smarts wisely. As a DM I tell my players that yes they can die, rushing headlong into every battle is a sure fire way to rolling a new PC. I encourage them to ask questions of NPCs, research, and leave escape routes open. I will always try to “save” them if they’ve done the best they can against a tough foe, but don’t reward arrogant stupidity. D&D is the whole adventure: winning, losing, learning. Give players the bigger picture, makes for a better game!

By: Geoffrey

Geoffrey — Fri, 24 Feb 2012 18:36:23 +0000

As I’ve thrown some encounters at PCs that they were not meant to defeat until later, I very much enjoyed this story. I prefer to use the very baddy bad guy every now and then and I very much enjoy throwing him at PCs several times only to leave them a little bruised and watch the villain run away, only to set up more devious traps the next time.

To me, this is part of the way the game is meant to be played. Yes, standard encounters are based on the levels and abilities of a party, but a lot has to be done and thought about to mix it up. A few easier encounters, and some much harder. It helps create paces in different parts of the game, creating intensity right before a major development is made in a storyline, .

I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t set up warning after warning. They will get one piece of information that is realistic that may warn them of impending doom. For example, when they land their dingy at the mysterious island and step in a footprint twice the size of their party, they have an option. There is always an alternative.

By: Should Monsters Employ Smart Tactics? — Dungeon's Master

Should Monsters Employ Smart Tactics? — Dungeon's Master — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:44:07 +0000

[...] Fighting an Opponent You Can’t Beat [...]

By: Accepting a Suicide Mission — Dungeon's Master

Accepting a Suicide Mission — Dungeon's Master — Tue, 31 May 2011 14:26:43 +0000

[...] Fighting an Opponent You Can’t Beat [...]

By: Designing Encounters That Can’t Be Beat (Part 1) — Dungeon's Master

Designing Encounters That Can’t Be Beat (Part 1) — Dungeon's Master — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 14:31:36 +0000

[...] Fighting an Opponent You Can’t Beat [...]

By: Retreat Is Always An Option, At Least It Should Be — Dungeon's Master

Retreat Is Always An Option, At Least It Should Be — Dungeon's Master — Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:31:52 +0000

[...] A common belief among many D&D players is that if the party is balanced and the DM is doing his job properly, every encounter is beatable. This kind of thinking among players instills within them with a sense of invulnerability – an invulnerability that they do not in fact possess. However, with the way that the 4e D&D mechanics work, more often than not players should have a pretty reasonable chance of overcoming a balanced encounter. Thus players continue believing that they’re capable of defeating everything they face. It never even occurs to them that in some instances they’ll face an opponent they can’t beat. [...]

By: JonathonVolkmer

JonathonVolkmer — Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:46:22 +0000

I should say first, that I really like Maxo’s note about alternatives to outright PKs. There are a lot of other good ideas here too, too many to comment on.

Frankly, I have long been a fan of warning players before the campaign starts that stupidity is lethal. I’ve killed relatively few characters over the years, because they know going in that I rarely pull punches.

That said, my players are generally careful and creative when it comes to encounters and problem solving, and I hope to eventually raise them to the level of Sun Tzu-style battle strategy: win the fight before it starts!

By: Jack the Cleric

Jack the Cleric — Tue, 04 Jan 2011 03:54:21 +0000

I forgot until just now. I did hear some DMs back in the day say they were disappointed if they didn’t get to kill a character (usually to a bystander just before a game within earshot of the players), but it was mostly “trash talking” to put players into a proper paranoia. We did a lot of running (for our lives) in those games now that I think of it. LOL.

Our game playing up to the point of combat most likely resembled the scene from 2001 A Space Odyssey when the primates are approaching the obelisk and keep retreating and making noises at each other. Quite to the contrary of the article, we had a very active fear of most critters unknown, and no room was ever entered without 5 minutes (or more!) of questions about room appearance, and always 10 foot poles tapping/leading the way!

By: Jack the Cleric

Jack the Cleric — Tue, 04 Jan 2011 01:00:49 +0000

I started gaming mid 80′s in a hobby shop filled to the roof with Naval ship to ship, Napoleonic, and World War 2 wargamers who were also old school D&D, AD&D, and even Chainmail miniature players. 1st edition was the current game du jour, but plenty around who still gamed like it was brown book. We died all the time. You would have thought it was cruel by today’s standard, but that was life. You screw up, you die; so learn and begin anew. I found every character is just as important as the last, and the death is just as hard every time it happens.
I find video games no different. Even if you have unlimited lives, to go on a long run and then die for the 12th time, you still groan and feel the frustration. Bad thing about games like 3.5 is the effort that must be put in to create the character in the first place. Old school was far far easier. Roll the stats, basic equipment, give a name and have some idea of background and voila! instant new character. I still see game death as just a speed bump, and nothing to get hung up over, but only many a death can get you to that place. Nothing to be gained by trying to over-protect the gamers.
OTOH, 11 and 9 year olds may have a harder time I guess, but teenagers like myself when I started are hardly much better.
On another note: I would never say to anyone “life isn’t fair, neither is my game.” They know why they died… most likely bad dice rolls on their part, a lack of asking the right questions, or really great die rolling by the bad guys. I would have to have a long talk with anyone that would accuse a DM of being “out to get them” since they may be taking a game too personally. I grew up in the age of “evil demonic D&D” accusations so finding someone getting a bit too wrapped up in the game world means a bit more to me, but if most are having a great time, death notwithstanding, and one guy is really bumming out, he may need talking to.

By: Ryan

Ryan — Mon, 27 Dec 2010 19:06:39 +0000

3.5
SoulKnife
WearBear Cleric
Fighter
-I forget…most likely a heavy caster.

All level 13 and had been fighting random monsters all day. Doing pretty well too.

A buddy of mine got home from work and decided to have us fight something.

4 Upper Tear Basilisks (Monster Manual 1 I think). He had us enter a box canyon and 4 failed DC28 will saves vs petrification later….we died in 1 round.

The one of us with the highest will save needed to roll a 14….the rest needed a 18-20.