When trying to find the right answer we of course begin by searching in the PHB, DMG, Rules Compendium or online compendium. If we can find a definitive ruling we go to the internet and the various forums. But this doesn’t always provide us with a satisfactory answer either. So we’ve decided to try a new series where we present the situation, explain our ruling and ask for your feedback. This might end up being a very informative series that clears up a lot of confusion for players and DMs alike or it may become a series where we get flamed by the online community for not knowing something obvious. We’re hoping that the good outweighs the bad so we’ve moving forward with it.
Prone
We’ve had a lot of situations in our home game lately where the PCs are knocked prone. The rules for what you can and can’t do while prone are pretty straight forward, but we’ve had a few unexpected scenarios come up that were not as clear cut – specifically around moving while prone.
- Can a prone character charge while prone?
According to the rules you have to move at least 2 squares in order to charge. A prone character can still move (albeit at half their speed). If the character’s speed is 4 of higher they can certainly move the required 2 squares. So can you charge while prone? A silly as it might look I think you can. However in my home game we’ve house ruled that you cannot because we think that it’s contradictory to the intent behind the charge action. - Can a prone character jump?
Much like the situation with charging, the rules as written don’t specifically say one way or the other so I’d be inclined to say you can. However, for the same reason as the charging example, we’ve house ruled it that a prone character cannot jump across a pit or over lava unless he stands up first. Jumping while prone doesn’t seem in keeping with the intent of how the jumping rules work. - Can a prone character fly while prone?
This is really something that is likely to affect monsters more than PCs, but with the introduction of the Pixie in Heroes of the Feywild (a playable race that can fly) it may become more relevant in the coming months. It’s always seemed silly to me that a flying creature can be subjected to the prone condition, but that’s not what’s on the table now. If the flying creature is prone, can it fly (equivalent to a crawl for non-flying creatures)? Can it gain elevation as it flies while remaining prone? We’ve ruled that horizontal (side-to-side) movement is allowed but not vertical movement, even at crawl speed.
Reduce the Area of Effect and Damage
A lot of powers are blasts and bursts. In most cases these powers are intended to target multiple creatures in a larger area. But what if I don’t want to target everyone?
- Can a character reduce the size of a blast or burst?
The most common reason to reduce the size of a power’s area of effect is to avoid hitting your allies. There are feats and items that will allow you to make the area larger but nothing to make it smaller. So the question remains can you reduce the size of a power’s burst or blast if you want to? Doesn’t it make sense that a Dragonborn knows how to control his breath weapon well enough that he can make it a blast 2 rather than a blast 3? Our group has ruled that you cannot reduce the size of a blast or burst, although I disagree with this ruling (majority wins). - Can a character choose to inflict the minimum damage?
Along the same lines as the questions above, if you know that you’re going to get your allies in a blast or burst can you choose to deal the minimum dice damage to the entire area? This would be especially beneficial if you know there are minions in the blast. Since minions will fall as soon as they’re hit, there’s no need for me to BBQ my allies in the process. If I would normally deal 2d8+6 fire damage can I opt to deal only 8 damage (1+1+6)? I’d assume that the modifier damage cannot be reduced but what about the random dice damage? Again my group ruled that you have to roll the dice in all circumstances (except for crits, obviously) despite my recommendation to the contrary (again the majority ruled).
It’s important to remember that in any situation where you have to make a call on the rules that the outcome needs to be applied consistently across the board. If it’s going to work that way for the PCs then it’s also going to work that way for the monsters. When we vote on a house rule that’s the number one reason to err on the conservative side of the argument.
Have you you’ve experienced a unique situation during your game where the rules are murky and you haven’t been able to find a satisfactory answer? Send me an email with the specifics and we may feature your plight in an upcoming installment of You Make the Call.
Have you had any of these situations come up at your gaming table? How did you rule them? Where do you stand on these prone questions? What about reducing the size of blasts and bursts or inflicting less damage? You make the call!
Related reading:
- Adjudicating and House Rules
- Speeding Up Your Game
- A 4e D&D Rules Question: Teleporting What You Can’t See
View Comments (23)
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
1 2 3 Next »I like most of the rulings you put forth, although for "Pulling a Punch", i would suggest something simple like "Take a -2 attack penalty and the attack is 'weakened'".
But I was expecting from your post was more related to ruling on the fly and checking rules later. I see a lot of games where the DM (myself included) will often want to look at the rules and spend 5 minutes digging things up which wastes valuable game time.
@Sentrack
For more about ruling on the fly and not bogging down the game, see our article Adjudicating and House Rules which covers that facet in greater detail.
I agree with you a lot Ameron. I have always allowed a pulled punch (minimum damage) in order to represent people not trying to hurt someone. Obviously they need to be willing and able to do that, but it does come up (dominated? You're rolling the damage for sure). This would be for the entire attack though and you couldn't pull just one roll from a multi-target power like Hunter's burst for example.
I do like Sentack's option of opting to be weakened for the attack though as a nice alternative since the condition could last. The PC is so focused on not hurting their friends that they aren't fighting at full strength until their ally is clear (Weakened until the Start or End of their next turn).
As for the size of the blast, I'd disagree with you though. My counter example is the feat "Focused Breath" which lets you choose to reduce the blast to a close blast 1 for Dragon's Breath. Given that a feat gives you the ability to do that (albeit for a small damage buff), I'd consider that you couldn't do it normally.
Great article as always by the way!
I agree with your prone rules. The flying one is tricky though, and I would probably rule it as okay to go up at half speed or something. As for charging, I was under the impression that you couldn't charge while slowed in any way anyway. I could be wrong...
I would definitely allow shrinking the size AND doing minimal damage (it would have to be to ALL targets obviously). In almost all cases, it makes sense that the user has a decent amount of control. But reducing the size cannot be simply removing one square from the zone (I don't think this is what you were thinking either), it would have to be an entire edge if the zone, and I probably wouldn't let them reduce it by more than one.
I think, as a strict, literal rules interpretation, you could gain altitude at half movement while prone (and flying).
I would think that many flying abilities might be enhanced by allowing them to recover orientation (stand up, but you're in the air) as a minor action, rather than as a move action.
You could also rule that prone, flying characters, at the beginning of their turn lose 2 squares of height. They may then recover, or move half, as they choose.
I see a prone character as someone who is completely off balance and hasn't regained solid footing. You aren't necessarily laying on the ground, but your hands and knees are going to come in contact with it as you try to move. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to charge or jump while in this condition. You just won't do those actions very well.
I would say that in order to fly (just like in order to walk), you have to first stand up from prone. If you're prone and want to move you'd normally have to crawl, and it just doesn't make sense for a creature to substitute its fly speed to crawl.
While the charge description doesn't EXPLICITLY state that you can't charge while prone, I think it's pretty clear that it's not intended for you to be able to. Furthermore, the RC states: "the creature moves up to its speed toward the target." Since a prone creature is incapable of moving up to their speed, you might rule that they cannot charge.
For jumping, I'd say you need the use of your legs to jump. A prone creature is LYING on the ground, and thus not on their feet. I wouldn't let them jump from such a position. As a compromise, I might let them attempt to jump but suffer a -5 penalty.
I would NOT allow AoEs to be reduced, nor would I allow minimum damage. That's part of the inherent risks of AoEs, and if you want to get around that the solution is to use better tactics. Besides, that would devalue feats like War Wizardry (which imply that AoEs cannot otherwise be "modified").
@JSchuler: The rules for Prone explicitly state that you ARE lying down (RC 232).
Jumping while prone -
This came up this past week. A room with Ice one the floors, walls and ceiling. It was so hazardous that in order to move more than 1 square you had to get a pretty high acrobatics check(even if you were trained).
sooo... my PC stayed prone pushing off from wall to wall sliding on his back we ruled for this specific circumstance that you could charge but with a -5 to attacks. We ruled also that the sliding would work like a jump (in that particular circumstance)
It seems pretty clear to me that you're wrong on all counts when it comes to the prone questions. The glossary says: "When a creature is prone ... the only way it can move is by crawling, teleporting, or being pulled, pushed, or slid." The crawl action is a specific action that is only usable while prone. It cannot be combined with other actions like charge, walk, run, etc. Now, I don't disagree that you might come up with some house rules to cover some special cases, but the base rules seem clear here.