I’ll admit these were my initial thoughts on the Goliath and things haven’t changed much. Perhaps my stereotypes aren’t fair or justified, but that’s ok because they’re mine. I don’t like the Goliath for a number of reasons, however I wanted to give this giant of a race a fair shot. So here is my take on them, my perceptions of their strengths and weaknesses. You may also want to see my thoughts on Dwarves (the best race) and Tieflings.
Attribute Bonuses
Goliaths receive a bonus to both Strength and Constitution. This makes them great in the defender role. They have the ability to absorb damage and the requisite strength that these classes normally require to dish out the pain.
However, having a bonus to two attributes that feed into the same defense is a big weakness in my mind. The tendency in selecting a race that has attribute bonuses that both feed into a particular role or class is to embrace it. What this results in is lower attributes at the other end. If you select the Goliath for the purpose of excelling as a Barbarian or Fighter, be wary of having a really low Reflex or Will defense. You will pay for it down the road.
The following classes use either Strength or Constitution as a primary attribute: Barbarian, Battlemind, Fighter, Paladin, Warden, Warlock and Warlord. Six classes use Strength as a secondary attribute and twelve use Constitution as a secondary attribute.
Skill Bonuses
Goliath’s receive a racial bonus to Athletics and Nature. The bonus to Athletics compliments the Strength bonus Goliaths receive. Given the powerful athlete racial power, detailed below, the choice is either to completely maximize the Athletics skill and train it or spend the skill training elsewhere. The reality is that most classes that use Strength as primary attribute only receive a limited amount of skills for training and almost all of them have Athletics on their list. As a result it may be difficult to select a different skill.
Racial Benefits
Mountain Tenacity
I really think the designers of the Goliath threw this race a bone with this one. Recognizing that Goliaths really are defender type character who may suffer from a low will defense they’ve provided a +1 built in. I’m never one to turn down a bonus to a defense and for the Goliath this is a welcome addition.
Seriously?
Roll twice for Athletics when jumping or climbing? Ok I can see the benefit, but unless you go out of your way to jump and climb how often is this benefit really going to matter? Now granted your Goliath might be wearing heavy armour and suffering from an armour check penalty so maybe rolling twice is a good thing, but talk about a yawner of a racial benefit. Yes, it compliments the Strength and Athletics bonus, but boring.
I think Dwarves get the racial benefit that Goliaths should, which is stand your ground. Granted Dwarves already have that benefit so I guess the Goliath is out of luck.
Stone’s Endurance
Stone’s Endurance is a great encounter power, allowing the Goliath to gain resist 5 to all damage until the end of its next turn. There are all kinds of tactical considerations where this ability can be used to great effect. Whether its to ensure the Goliath stands for one more round or to mitigate damage that will be incurred from opportunity attacks. This power really emphasises that the Goliath is a physical presence on the battlefield.
Class Considerations
The Goliath is geared towards classes that rely on Strength and Constitution. To that end the Barbarian, Fighter and Warden make the most sense from a pure mechanics standpoint. Other interesting options are available to the Goliath and the Warlock is perhaps the most atypical available that still uses a primary attribute.
One great strength of the Goliath is that Constitution is a secondary attribute for twelve classes which opens up a great deal of options for a player who selects the Goliath.
Classes That Use Strength As A Primary Attribute (6/25)
- Barbarian
- Fighter
- Paladin
- Ranger
- Warden
- Warlord
Classes That Use Constitution As A Primary Attribute (2/25)
- Battlemind
- Warlock
Classes That Use Strength As A Secondary Attribute (6/25)
- Cleric
- Monk
- Rogue
- Seeker
- Sorcerer
- Swordmage
Classes That Use Constitution As A Secondary Attribute (12/25)
- Ardent
- Artificer
- Assassin
- Barbarian
- Bard
- Druid
- Fighter
- Invoker
- Shaman
- Swordmage
- Warden
- Warlock
Classes That Use Strength As A Primary, Constitution As A Secondary Attribute
- Barbarian
- Fighter
- Warden
Classes That Use Constitution As A Primary, Strength As A Secondary Attribute
- Nil
Classes That Use Both Attributes As A Secondary Attribute
- Swordmage
Ok, I wasn’t as hard on the Goliath as I thought I would be. The truth is I use this race when I’m playing a defender in a dungeon delve. They make great throw away characters and perhaps that’s my problem with them. I just don’t feel that the Goliath fits in with the lore of Dungeons & Dragons. I also feel that other races fill the role that the Goliath is geared to better. Namely the Dwarf.
What are your thoughts on the Goliath? While I haven’t been overly harsh they are low on my list of favourite races. Am I being unfair? Have I missed some glaringly obvious point that makes the Goliath a shining beacon of a race?
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1 2 3 Next »"Roll twice for Athletics when jumping or climbing?"
Depending on the campaign, that can be huge. I like to throw physical challenges at my players because I hate puzzles and there's only so much opportunity for social encounters. It's nice to know there's almost zero chance of fumbling a climb check halfway up a wall and plummeting to your doom (or at least to the loss of a couple healing surges). Being able to roll twice for jump checks makes pulling off stunts a lot less of a gamble.
Echoing what Swordgleam said. I ran a one night, all primal-based dungeon crawl to allow players to try out some of the classes/races we never touched in my campaign. The Goliath character made good use of the Athletics re-roll ability, since my adventure consisted of traveling from Mountains to Jungles and into a dungeon deep underground.
I suppose in the end it's a question of taste; in this case, a 3rd party taste. If the DM doesn't throw a lot climbing or jumping opportunities in his designs, it's a great ability wasted.
.-= Rev. Lazaro´s last blog ..Scary New Endeavor this Week…. =-.
Going to echo both Swordgleam and Rev. Lazaro here -- the "roll twice for Athletics when jumping or climbing" ability would be a huge benefit to my players. I tend to try to manufacture three-dimensional spaces for battles, so even apart from the traditional dungeon-crawling uses for those two skills, they often end up being important in my game.
Mechanically, a goliath barbarian is an amazing striker. It's got a twofer for stat bonuses, a boost to Will defenses, and Nature's a class skill for the barbarian. And here again the Powerful Athlete class feature becomes critical -- you can jump as part of a charge, so using the better of two Athletics rolls becomes really useful for Rageblood Vigor builds. The goliath makes a good defender, too, as you said.
I like Goliaths from a less mechanical perspective as well, probably because the old 3.5E Races of Stone book did a good job making them interesting. They also have the advantage of bringing no baggage with them into the game: Dwarves, minotaurs, gnolls, orcs, and other "traditional" Big Tough Guy races have years - or centuries in the minotaur's case - of mythology and gaming tradition built up around them. Goliaths don't have to "play against type" or be a "traditional" anything -- they just are.
One thing to keep in mind is that the Dark Sun books appear to be using goliaths for the old half-giant race. That should help add some interesting features to them, in both the 'fluff' and 'mechanics' departments.
.-= Saragon´s last blog ..More Thoughts on Mage, and Hints of Something Cool =-.
I don't mind the one dimensional nature of the Goliaths stats. However, I think that WoTC failed to deliver enough 'variety' with this new race. It feels like a big dwarf.
Other races have interesting fluff/attributes that gives the character much more than a stat block boost. Dragonborns, Tieflings, and warforged, bring so much more to the table than the elements you find in their stats. Goliaths fail to add much beyond height, strength and constitution. As you point out, even that boost isn't enough to make it elevate beyond me smash, you crush roleplaying.
I love Goliaths because they make humans a more attractive character race to play lol. Too few humans in a typically human-dominated world makes a party of players seem more like a group of carney freaks that travel from town to town for money/fame. "Hey look! The carnival's attractions include a handful of midgets, a lizard boy, a horned girl, a giant (bearded?) lady, and even a normal person! - the rarest race of them all!!!"
@ Swordgleam, Rev. Lazaro, Saragon
There is no doubt that this ability could be huge given the campaign. The last character I ran was an athlete and I was always attempting stunts that required athletics or acrobatics. An ability like this would have been great for increasing my odds of success. However, there are two reasons I don't like it: 1) Athletics checks are seldom life threatening checks, there is something to be said for failing a role like this spectacularly. 2) I'm fairly certain there are a couple of feats that offer simliar results to this ability. I don't have access to any books to verify this, but I'm fairly certain I'm correct. To me having a racial power that's duplicated as a feat seems like a cheat.
@ Steven
I agree there is no real background to them. Now Saragon points out that they may play a larger role in Dark Sun, so I look forward to checking that out. But it only really applies to Dark Sun. Goliaths just seem like big people to me, boring.
@ Dan
Your comment reminds me of Ameron's article on Only One Race In Fantasy RPGs.
My hope is that with the "Half-Giant" flavor in the Dark Sun guide, perhaps with some athasian feats for goliaths might really flavor these a bit better. In any event, it had more "fluff" than the current setup.
i think you hit the nail on the head. It seems like a race that isn't needed and doesn't fit anywhere. Even when i wrote a few sentences of the mythology of creation for each race in my homebrew, i left goliath out completely--claimed that no one knew any myhtology of their creation story at all ever.
I've got to admit, it seems cool to consider a very large human with neat patchy marks, but once you come right down to it, they haven't got much else beyond that. one of the saddest things is that while they are meant to be larger, they don't receive treatment as oversized to get access to more powerful weapons because of it.
Regardless, i can't argue with the posters that made mention of the usefullness of powerful athlete in the appropriate setting. Still, i'd prefer an elf with wood elf agility to the powerful athlete of a goliath.
Athletics is one of my favorite skills.
Everyone loves showing off by using Dungeoneering, Nature or Arcana checks to get a leg up on encounters, while others pat themselves on the back by using their Perception and Insight to see if the NPCs mean what they say and using their gift of gab to use Diplomacy.
But few things are more embarrassing than being unable to jump, climb or swim across terrain of moderate to easy DC.
.-= Matthew Arcilla´s last blog ..February 2010 Blog Roundup: Choice Bits =-.
For more fluff about the Goliath, I recommend reading the 3.5 supplement, Races of Stone, wherein their culture and society are explored in more detail. One of my players is playing a Goliath Barbarian, and he said the strongest draw he had to the race was the incredulous social game they play: Goat Ball. Look it up, I'm sure you'll enjoy it as much as my player did ^^